You are going to have an interesting time here.
YAY fun !!! lol
ok now down to my initial responses....
[Brother Henry did not allege that other faiths and spiritual systems do not have comparable teachings to Buddhism - but rather that the presentation of these particular teachings makes Buddhism distinct. It is mere sophistry and self-deception to, on the one hand, state that these elements of dharma "are all taught", and then in the same breath state that they are "explained and/or symbolized ... differently".
The teaching is either explicit and intact or it is not - where there is difference there is difference, and it is trite to ignore the effect that such differences have upon view.]
Its all in the presentation. One one had... like I have said. Both buddhism and kmtism use diff 'vehicles' or 'symbolism' but thier point/lession is essentialy the same. I feel that if you get to distracted by 'words' insted of 'meaning' you are not quite getting the point.
On the other had that is 'seperation' kmt is Not about breaking things all down and spererating things it more like the 'unity' of 'everything' and by the way, you ARE everything, a nice little microcoms of the universe. I have seen this in buddhist teaching as well.
Im not sure how a differance in a word that conveys the same message is incredably important
[All Contaminated Phenomena are of the nature of Suffering]
I kinda thought that when I posted that exerpt from Her-Bak it was a good example of this.
you also mention 'the self' *shrug.... I am ntr you are ntr everything is ntr there is no 'self' not really, so 'the self' is an illusion we are all sharing just reflecting our 'stuffy thing' on each other round and round we go.
[Ptah is a creator deity.
Ra is the solar cyclic who needs defense at night in his barque against Apep.
Amun is better because of origin and role, but has no enlightened doctrine, and is more of a king of the gods than conqueror and liberator.
There are appropriate manifestations of the kayas, and perhaps a deeper investigation of them, and their attributes, and portrayals, according to a legitimate course of study, would serve you well.]
yes Im working on the basic meanings here
as in
dharmakaya is the absolute
samboghakaya- expressed through stories of dieties
nirmanakaya - phinominal world,, here, now.
and at the risk of being repititions lets just say that the Mdu Ntr are akin to Koan shall we? Its the easiest way for me to explane this.. but then again, Im sure I have at least touched on Ntr before, if I havent I appologise and I will do so.
Ptha, is not a cut and dry guy (yeah I know Im reffering to them as if they are 'people' and not symbolic representitives of entire teachings but hey... I find it amusing to do so)
Ptah is many things, yes a creator, he is one who hears all your prayers, he is a craftsman, he is a judge.... many things, however he is still just a name, a little piece of Ntr...
RA
is LIFE he is the fire and light of life he is illumination , knowledge, power, knowledge ect ect ect
he needs protection in the duat (in some versions of the duat... esp Old Kingdom text he is rather dead at the time, in the middle kindgom version he is really bussy administering the kingdoms fo the duat and punishing the wicked and rewarding the good to be bothered by defeating Apep. In the Old kingdom text it is Set who slays apap (showing us that we can overcome our 'base' natuer of animalistic behavoir and ignorant fixation) In middle kingdom... its just a bunch of others including the sons of heru... and finnally in New Kingdom its the Heliopolin ogdoad and finnally Bast all of thes actions and retelling of the duat are examples of teaching of blah blah blah)
(now imagine, sir, that you are teaching a class and I am a student waving my hand wildly about atempting to get your attention)
Excuse meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!??? uhmm (lol its just the visual I got)
Pardon (Im not offended or anything) but how is Amun better than.....? and what is Amun better then? (hu? what happened, did I misread something, it is very possible as I am dyslexic)
Amun and Brahman have about the same meaning as I previously mentioned.And no enlightened doctorine? Now I'm incredably confused..... Im sure you arent insulting me to say there is no enlightened doctrine in my teachings???? uh it kinda sounds.... uhmm not uhmm well it does look insulting..... Im sure you mean something other than that though and that I just missed your point or something. I really dont think anyone in this comunity would just come up here and say.... your teachings have NO enlightened doctorine... so Im very sure I just missed some part of what you are saying .... please explain because I just got completely lost.
Im not offended but how on earth can the meditation on the concep of the, absolute, the ALL, the everything, the unknowable and undefineable not assist in a greater understanding of .....blah blah blah Amun teaches us to be too dependant on fixed 'meanings' and 'definitions' (sound familiar) like in zen it is taught that yes all sutras are important but you really shouldn't 'depend' on them, after all, they are not going to get you closer to enlightenment, only you can do that.
To me, and through my practice of zazen ( I was 25 when I started Im 34 now... and this is just my limited understanding, but its not baseless) Amun to me is very much like the state of being in zazen.
I could be wrong here, but I dont think that Upasaka was appliying the Ntr specifically in the way you think,,,, I beleive that was just an example...not to be taken to literally. But if you would like a literal example:
Dharmakaya = Amun
Samboghakaya = Ra
Nirmanakaya = Imhotep (Im using him because he is an example of a Master of Secrets and was diefied but stick in any name of any sage you want...or we could just use my name.. or your name, or your dogs name as this state is reffering to ... 'us' in our 'life' ne?
[Demonstrate a meaningful parallel of view.]
my meaningful parallel view is reflected in part in that short bit of Her-Bak, there are others of course... I could try and remember to post them for you as that is why I started this thread in the first place..... I will try to remember ... really I will !!!!!! YAY ... usually I dont look for paralles, I just find them but this is a realllly good excorsise ! Im soooo excited now !!!!
(but if you actually want to find that answer yorself I sudgest you read the Schwaller de Lubicz books or you could check out egyptian yoga by muata ashby)
or we could look at Mdu Ntr in general... the word Ntr doesn mean ONE thing it means many thing a representitive that we are not all for this 'physical' illusion stuff. or Heru-Set... the combined symbol...all those myths the lower self fighting the higher self. the higher self conquering the lower self and then get this... only by ma'at is it settled ! You could say univeral law, that everything set of 'rules' that leads towards 'enlightenment' or 'becomming' Ntr (enlightement) Im actually just summing this up ... I could go on about this for hours and hours... but lowerself. speration form all is bad.... understanding that you ARE ntr and not a seperate entity mired in all this physical crud is the main point btwn the Heru and Set myths.... is that a good example????
(I have been told that my communications skills are sevearly lacking so I'm never really sure Im actually 'making' the point I think Im making)
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